(Dernière actualisation : 16 mai 2008)
Cette lettre ouverte anonyme a été publiée initialement le 8 mai 2008 sur le blog de 4d-Don, en commentaire de "Chari is Angry with Supreme court Judgement". Elle est adressée à Navneet Kumar Saxena, fils de Umesh Chandra Saxena et petit-fils de Babuji.
Cette lettre est restée sans réponse à ce jour...
OPEN LETTER TO NAVNEET KUMAR SAXENA
Dear Navneet,
fine, that you are healthy and “in station” again. So, maybe, we can ask you some questions (or repeat some unanswered questions).
1. Y O U R D E C I S I O N IN ANSWER TO THE JUDGEMENT CONCERNING CIVIL APPEAL NO. 6619 OF 2000 (Supreme Court) should be given to the public. The Court decided that the decision of case of 2007 has to be done latest in 6 months. Will you take any legal activities of a so-called interim protection?
If you do, of what type will they be?
[The judgement of the Supreme Court for the case of the year 2000 says
“.....So far as ORIGINAL SUIT NO. 7359 OF 1989 is concerned, the findings recorded in the judgment therein could have constituted res judicata but the fact remains that the appellate court permitted the WITHDRAWAL OF THE SUIT and once the suit has been permitted to be WITHDRAWN all the proceedings taken therein including the judgment passed by the trial court have been wiped out. A judgment given in a suit which has been permitted to be withdrawn with the liberty of filing a fresh suit on the same cause of action CANNOT CONSTITUTE RES JUDICATE IN A SUBSEQUENT SUIT FILED PURSUANT to such permission of the court.
.... It would be appropriate to direct that THE PENDING SUIT [02/2007 HIGH COURT] shall be decided within a period of six months...
...It is open to the parties to move for such INTERIM PROTECTION ....”]
2. NAVNEET, WHAT ARE YOUR INTENTIONS?
For example, for what did you need comments from other blogs? Why did you ask on http://4d-don.blogspot.com/ for posting comments from there to your blog? (What is this policy of shifting comments from one blog to another blog? Are people asked if they agree with the shift? If not, is this honest? Didn’t you learn during study, not to make any quotations without giving the sourse of the quotation?
[From: http://4d-don.blogspot.com/ on March 25, 2007 10:19:00 PDT PM/“Navneet said:”enter comments into new Blog Address as below http://srcmshahjahanpur.blogspot.com/ I have lost comments from 124 onwards if people who have posted can re-post your welcome.”
On http://srcmshahjahanpur.blogspot.com/ Posted by Navneet at 10:03 PM 1 comments/ comment 1: 4d-Don said... “Hi Navneet........ “( now comments of many bloggers are encluded in this comment 1)]. Is there any SPIRITUAL reason in this?
3.Why are you looking for “supporters” and thinking about the “ (support) of a good n u m b e r of people”?
Did you unterstand the comment “....I GUESS SERIOUS SPIRITUAL SEEKERS SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM S R C M ... OF SHAJAHANPUR ...... SO PLZ STOP ALL THIS!” correctly?
[From: http://tmtindia.blogspot.com/2007/01/justice-should-be-for-all-not-only-for.html/
N a v n e e t /sandeep said.., an inactive abhayase of SRCMtm (not SRCM?)]
4. Do YOU know about A H I M S A or KNOW ALL PEOPLE AS YOUR BROTHERS AND TREAT THEM AS SUCH (Or less spiritual: prohibition on vigilantism)?
And what happened to a person who was beaten up in the past by your people, W H E R E I S H E N O W ?
[N a v n e e t K u m a r: “....After about 3 to 4 months Sh. Jahangirdhar also died on the spot at his residence soon after he was given pills in name of medicine by an individual. the individual was beaten in closed room and asked who was behind it he said I can't name him otherwise he will kill me, T O O . Now I am not saying who is behind it and what was the benefit he could have got...”
A B: “Mr. Navneet Kumar, I am able to imagine what happened in this “closed room”. Can you explain if this is the practical application of your spiritual theory in life?
N a v n e e t K u m a r: “I just narrated the incident which took place and by the person who was involved in questioning the gentleman who was the tool to Sh. Jahangirdar ji’s death. Moreover, just to bring to your notice that Sh. Jehangirdar ji did tell my father 3-4 months before his death that he knows that he will also die, like Babuji died and that was the reason that he gave the last letter of Babuji to my father during his visit to Shahjahanpur.”]
NOW WE ARE JUST QUESTIONING THE GENTLEMAN WHO IS INVOLVED IN THIS LEGAL BATTLE AS LONG AS HE IS IN STATION NOW.
5. For what was BABUJI’S NEED TO TAKE CARE OF HIS TRANSMISSION when (like others, too, do) he believed that he will never die?
["I have descended on this earth as a living person. I will go back as a l i v i n g p e r s o n and the question of my dying does not arise." -- Babuji From: http://www.srcmshahjahanpur.org.in/our_master.html
and
“As far as transmission is concerned, Babuji has taken care of the same before leaving his
physical Body.”
From: http://tmtindia.blogspot.com/2007/01/justice-should-be-for-all-not-only-for.html/ N a v n e e t]
6. Do you wish to draw people’s attention to the fact, that the quotation "...I have never claimed to be a MASTER..it is unfortunate that some people..are addressing me by that term....So in fact, the purpose of my talk is to request all of you to stop addressing me as Master” originated in the time before 1988 (it was first published in 1988), which means about 20 years back?
7. Would you agree, if your grandfather Ram Chandra of Shajahanpur was the - ONLY - GURU OF SRCM, then SRCM wasn‘t created in honor of Ram Chandra of Fategarh and there will be no sucessor in future, too?
[N a v n e e t K u m a r: “I still abide by the everlasting fact that Babuji is the only and the last Guru of Shri Ram Chandra Mission.” ....“Let me clear that we are against the divisions and we still say that Babuji is the oonly GURU and shall remain till the end of this world.”
“The basic concept is that Babuji Maharaj is and shall continue to remain t h e o n l y G u r u till mahapralay ( doom's day ).” --- Lalaji Maharaj in a dream of Babuji
From: http://www.srcmshahjahanpur.org.in/our_master.html/ “Successors & Spiritual Repräsentatives]
8. Do you know, that many (“very normal” people, not so- called special personalities) know the exact time when they will die, that others know that they will be killed? - My question is, HOW LIVED your grandfather his life knowing that there will be an attempt on his life and how did he deal with the question of death?
[A B: “Out of his explanations it seems to me stated, too, that Babuji (the special personality) seemed to be unable to find out W H O tried to make an attempt on his life.”
N a v n e e t K u m a r: Babuji did know that the attempt was being made on his life. His last letter clearly states so too. [The question again is: WHO?] He also predicted his long hospitalization, which also was true as we know that Babuji was in hospital from September soon after coming back from Paris to April 19th 1983 (The day of his Mahasamadhi. Moreover, as pointed by A old abhyasi about my Aunty stating B a b u j i ’s r e q u e s t o f F I R before leaving to Paris also clearly states that Babuji knew what the future had store for him.]
You allow me to tell the story of a well-known man in this context,
the story of the Sufi master Mansoor Hillaj.
It is said that Mansoor al Hillaj’s way to be killed was the worst ever done up to then. First his legs were cut off, then his hands were cut. He was alive. Then his tongue was cut, then his eyes were taken out. He was still alive. He was cut in pieces.
What crime had he done?
He had said, “An’al Haq.” (“I am the Truth. I am God.”)
The Seers of the Upanishads declare, “Aham Brahmasmi.” (“I am the Brahma, the Supreme Self.”)
The people couldn’t tolerante somebody saying this.
It is said when they cut Mansoor in peaces he looked to the sky and prayed to God and said, “You cannot deceive me! I can see you in everybody present here.
You are trying to deceive me? You have come as a the murderer?
I tell you in whatever form you come, I will recognize you, because I have recognized you in myself.”
And I’d like to direct your attention to the following text: “My Master had been seriously ill in the early part of the year 1974, and had to be finally hospitalised in Lucknow, where he lay in deep coma for almost one month. In view of his advanced age - he being 75 years old then - there were deep, though unexpressed, fears that the end may not be long. It was much of a miracle to most of us when he regained consciousness, and then went on to regain health.
It was my privilege to have been with him for part of the time he was hospitalised. I also went to Shahjahanpur after he was discharged from the hospital in Lucknow, and stayed with him for many days till he was relatively in better health, after his month of long ordeal. It was then that he revealed to me that he had chosen me to be his spiritual represantive, to eventually succeed him as the President of the Mission, whenever this became necessary. Those were, for me, very moving days, driving me to tears from moment to moment. Those were the blessed days when his gentle and deeply abiding love flowed upon me, over me, like a spring drizzle under blazing sunshine. Those were also the days of the most personal intimacy between us, when there seemed to be nothing at all between us, exept our two identities. It was as if he had removed all barriers between ourselves, and we were blissfully together in a oneness that would perhaps be difficult to experience later.
It was a time of the greatest happiness for me, and, rather surprisingly, the time of the greatest sorrow for me too, for it was then that I had to face the certain knowledge that one day my beloved would leave me to go into the brighter World. This knowledge almost broke my heart. He could of course divine it at a glance, and he would gently chide me for such thoughts, saying ‘I shall be with you for many more years. Do not worry about it now. Mrs . Davies told me that I shall live till 2006 or 2007, and others have told me the same thing. So don’t cry now. I shall be with you for a long time. One day we all shall have to go. But I repeat, it is very far off.’ Thus he would chide me and comfort me. But nevertheless, I could not bear to think of the time when he would not be with me, and thus began for me the hidden sorrow in my heart, which has never left me, and which, in 1983, became the stark and devastating reality that shall haunt me for the rest of my life. .....” P. Rajagopalachari, Bangalore, 8th March 1989
Nawneet Kumar, I see that you give second-hand informations to the auditory , which - generally - in most cases are unreliable, although there may be some truth in them. And I see, that we speek different languages (see 3.).
About the time of death of your grandfather you said
“My father had gone to America for his treatment, after attending the paris function. He came to know of Babuji’s illness and that he had been taken to hospital. So he cut short his visit returned back, and t h e n r e m a i n e d w i t h B a b u j i t i l l h e w a s i n t h e h o s p i t a l ....”
[First of all: Your father could afford to go for to U. S. for medical Treatment, this in the year 1983. I know Indians (professors, physicians, I don’t speak about poor people) who - in 2008 - say they can’t afford to go to a Western country. And I remember having read somewhere that the father of the same person, Babuji, told, that he couldn’t afford to drink milk, this in the days when the first visitors came to his home. (Somewhere I read that his trips to the West were paid by Western (Danish?) abhyasis.) I am surprised about what you tell here about about a medical treatment of your father. (But this isn’t the most important aspect of the discussion here.] The question is: WHERE was your father when Babuji DIED? WHO was with Babuji when he DIED?
- You never answered these questions.
I have nobody to ask for permission to write on this or any other blog. I can’t agree with the intentions behind SOME BLOGS and some comments. Moreover I don’t believe that the so-called discussions there serve the subject. For you, Navneet, I may say: You may think you serve the interests of your grandfather. It is my strong belief, that you don’t do.
Please, answer our questions before you go out of station again!
Cette lettre ouverte anonyme a été publiée initialement le 8 mai 2008 sur le blog de 4d-Don, en commentaire de "Chari is Angry with Supreme court Judgement". Elle est adressée à Navneet Kumar Saxena, fils de Umesh Chandra Saxena et petit-fils de Babuji.
Cette lettre est restée sans réponse à ce jour...
OPEN LETTER TO NAVNEET KUMAR SAXENA
Dear Navneet,
fine, that you are healthy and “in station” again. So, maybe, we can ask you some questions (or repeat some unanswered questions).
1. Y O U R D E C I S I O N IN ANSWER TO THE JUDGEMENT CONCERNING CIVIL APPEAL NO. 6619 OF 2000 (Supreme Court) should be given to the public. The Court decided that the decision of case of 2007 has to be done latest in 6 months. Will you take any legal activities of a so-called interim protection?
If you do, of what type will they be?
[The judgement of the Supreme Court for the case of the year 2000 says
“.....So far as ORIGINAL SUIT NO. 7359 OF 1989 is concerned, the findings recorded in the judgment therein could have constituted res judicata but the fact remains that the appellate court permitted the WITHDRAWAL OF THE SUIT and once the suit has been permitted to be WITHDRAWN all the proceedings taken therein including the judgment passed by the trial court have been wiped out. A judgment given in a suit which has been permitted to be withdrawn with the liberty of filing a fresh suit on the same cause of action CANNOT CONSTITUTE RES JUDICATE IN A SUBSEQUENT SUIT FILED PURSUANT to such permission of the court.
.... It would be appropriate to direct that THE PENDING SUIT [02/2007 HIGH COURT] shall be decided within a period of six months...
...It is open to the parties to move for such INTERIM PROTECTION ....”]
2. NAVNEET, WHAT ARE YOUR INTENTIONS?
For example, for what did you need comments from other blogs? Why did you ask on http://4d-don.blogspot.com/ for posting comments from there to your blog? (What is this policy of shifting comments from one blog to another blog? Are people asked if they agree with the shift? If not, is this honest? Didn’t you learn during study, not to make any quotations without giving the sourse of the quotation?
[From: http://4d-don.blogspot.com/ on March 25, 2007 10:19:00 PDT PM/“Navneet said:”enter comments into new Blog Address as below http://srcmshahjahanpur.blogspot.com/ I have lost comments from 124 onwards if people who have posted can re-post your welcome.”
On http://srcmshahjahanpur.blogspot.com/ Posted by Navneet at 10:03 PM 1 comments/ comment 1: 4d-Don said... “Hi Navneet........ “( now comments of many bloggers are encluded in this comment 1)]. Is there any SPIRITUAL reason in this?
3.Why are you looking for “supporters” and thinking about the “ (support) of a good n u m b e r of people”?
Did you unterstand the comment “....I GUESS SERIOUS SPIRITUAL SEEKERS SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM S R C M ... OF SHAJAHANPUR ...... SO PLZ STOP ALL THIS!” correctly?
[From: http://tmtindia.blogspot.com/2007/01/justice-should-be-for-all-not-only-for.html/
N a v n e e t /sandeep said.., an inactive abhayase of SRCMtm (not SRCM?)]
4. Do YOU know about A H I M S A or KNOW ALL PEOPLE AS YOUR BROTHERS AND TREAT THEM AS SUCH (Or less spiritual: prohibition on vigilantism)?
And what happened to a person who was beaten up in the past by your people, W H E R E I S H E N O W ?
[N a v n e e t K u m a r: “....After about 3 to 4 months Sh. Jahangirdhar also died on the spot at his residence soon after he was given pills in name of medicine by an individual. the individual was beaten in closed room and asked who was behind it he said I can't name him otherwise he will kill me, T O O . Now I am not saying who is behind it and what was the benefit he could have got...”
A B: “Mr. Navneet Kumar, I am able to imagine what happened in this “closed room”. Can you explain if this is the practical application of your spiritual theory in life?
N a v n e e t K u m a r: “I just narrated the incident which took place and by the person who was involved in questioning the gentleman who was the tool to Sh. Jahangirdar ji’s death. Moreover, just to bring to your notice that Sh. Jehangirdar ji did tell my father 3-4 months before his death that he knows that he will also die, like Babuji died and that was the reason that he gave the last letter of Babuji to my father during his visit to Shahjahanpur.”]
NOW WE ARE JUST QUESTIONING THE GENTLEMAN WHO IS INVOLVED IN THIS LEGAL BATTLE AS LONG AS HE IS IN STATION NOW.
5. For what was BABUJI’S NEED TO TAKE CARE OF HIS TRANSMISSION when (like others, too, do) he believed that he will never die?
["I have descended on this earth as a living person. I will go back as a l i v i n g p e r s o n and the question of my dying does not arise." -- Babuji From: http://www.srcmshahjahanpur.org.in/our_master.html
and
“As far as transmission is concerned, Babuji has taken care of the same before leaving his
physical Body.”
From: http://tmtindia.blogspot.com/2007/01/justice-should-be-for-all-not-only-for.html/ N a v n e e t]
6. Do you wish to draw people’s attention to the fact, that the quotation "...I have never claimed to be a MASTER..it is unfortunate that some people..are addressing me by that term....So in fact, the purpose of my talk is to request all of you to stop addressing me as Master” originated in the time before 1988 (it was first published in 1988), which means about 20 years back?
7. Would you agree, if your grandfather Ram Chandra of Shajahanpur was the - ONLY - GURU OF SRCM, then SRCM wasn‘t created in honor of Ram Chandra of Fategarh and there will be no sucessor in future, too?
[N a v n e e t K u m a r: “I still abide by the everlasting fact that Babuji is the only and the last Guru of Shri Ram Chandra Mission.” ....“Let me clear that we are against the divisions and we still say that Babuji is the oonly GURU and shall remain till the end of this world.”
“The basic concept is that Babuji Maharaj is and shall continue to remain t h e o n l y G u r u till mahapralay ( doom's day ).” --- Lalaji Maharaj in a dream of Babuji
From: http://www.srcmshahjahanpur.org.in/our_master.html/ “Successors & Spiritual Repräsentatives]
8. Do you know, that many (“very normal” people, not so- called special personalities) know the exact time when they will die, that others know that they will be killed? - My question is, HOW LIVED your grandfather his life knowing that there will be an attempt on his life and how did he deal with the question of death?
[A B: “Out of his explanations it seems to me stated, too, that Babuji (the special personality) seemed to be unable to find out W H O tried to make an attempt on his life.”
N a v n e e t K u m a r: Babuji did know that the attempt was being made on his life. His last letter clearly states so too. [The question again is: WHO?] He also predicted his long hospitalization, which also was true as we know that Babuji was in hospital from September soon after coming back from Paris to April 19th 1983 (The day of his Mahasamadhi. Moreover, as pointed by A old abhyasi about my Aunty stating B a b u j i ’s r e q u e s t o f F I R before leaving to Paris also clearly states that Babuji knew what the future had store for him.]
You allow me to tell the story of a well-known man in this context,
the story of the Sufi master Mansoor Hillaj.
It is said that Mansoor al Hillaj’s way to be killed was the worst ever done up to then. First his legs were cut off, then his hands were cut. He was alive. Then his tongue was cut, then his eyes were taken out. He was still alive. He was cut in pieces.
What crime had he done?
He had said, “An’al Haq.” (“I am the Truth. I am God.”)
The Seers of the Upanishads declare, “Aham Brahmasmi.” (“I am the Brahma, the Supreme Self.”)
The people couldn’t tolerante somebody saying this.
It is said when they cut Mansoor in peaces he looked to the sky and prayed to God and said, “You cannot deceive me! I can see you in everybody present here.
You are trying to deceive me? You have come as a the murderer?
I tell you in whatever form you come, I will recognize you, because I have recognized you in myself.”
And I’d like to direct your attention to the following text: “My Master had been seriously ill in the early part of the year 1974, and had to be finally hospitalised in Lucknow, where he lay in deep coma for almost one month. In view of his advanced age - he being 75 years old then - there were deep, though unexpressed, fears that the end may not be long. It was much of a miracle to most of us when he regained consciousness, and then went on to regain health.
It was my privilege to have been with him for part of the time he was hospitalised. I also went to Shahjahanpur after he was discharged from the hospital in Lucknow, and stayed with him for many days till he was relatively in better health, after his month of long ordeal. It was then that he revealed to me that he had chosen me to be his spiritual represantive, to eventually succeed him as the President of the Mission, whenever this became necessary. Those were, for me, very moving days, driving me to tears from moment to moment. Those were the blessed days when his gentle and deeply abiding love flowed upon me, over me, like a spring drizzle under blazing sunshine. Those were also the days of the most personal intimacy between us, when there seemed to be nothing at all between us, exept our two identities. It was as if he had removed all barriers between ourselves, and we were blissfully together in a oneness that would perhaps be difficult to experience later.
It was a time of the greatest happiness for me, and, rather surprisingly, the time of the greatest sorrow for me too, for it was then that I had to face the certain knowledge that one day my beloved would leave me to go into the brighter World. This knowledge almost broke my heart. He could of course divine it at a glance, and he would gently chide me for such thoughts, saying ‘I shall be with you for many more years. Do not worry about it now. Mrs . Davies told me that I shall live till 2006 or 2007, and others have told me the same thing. So don’t cry now. I shall be with you for a long time. One day we all shall have to go. But I repeat, it is very far off.’ Thus he would chide me and comfort me. But nevertheless, I could not bear to think of the time when he would not be with me, and thus began for me the hidden sorrow in my heart, which has never left me, and which, in 1983, became the stark and devastating reality that shall haunt me for the rest of my life. .....” P. Rajagopalachari, Bangalore, 8th March 1989
Nawneet Kumar, I see that you give second-hand informations to the auditory , which - generally - in most cases are unreliable, although there may be some truth in them. And I see, that we speek different languages (see 3.).
About the time of death of your grandfather you said
“My father had gone to America for his treatment, after attending the paris function. He came to know of Babuji’s illness and that he had been taken to hospital. So he cut short his visit returned back, and t h e n r e m a i n e d w i t h B a b u j i t i l l h e w a s i n t h e h o s p i t a l ....”
[First of all: Your father could afford to go for to U. S. for medical Treatment, this in the year 1983. I know Indians (professors, physicians, I don’t speak about poor people) who - in 2008 - say they can’t afford to go to a Western country. And I remember having read somewhere that the father of the same person, Babuji, told, that he couldn’t afford to drink milk, this in the days when the first visitors came to his home. (Somewhere I read that his trips to the West were paid by Western (Danish?) abhyasis.) I am surprised about what you tell here about about a medical treatment of your father. (But this isn’t the most important aspect of the discussion here.] The question is: WHERE was your father when Babuji DIED? WHO was with Babuji when he DIED?
- You never answered these questions.
I have nobody to ask for permission to write on this or any other blog. I can’t agree with the intentions behind SOME BLOGS and some comments. Moreover I don’t believe that the so-called discussions there serve the subject. For you, Navneet, I may say: You may think you serve the interests of your grandfather. It is my strong belief, that you don’t do.
Please, answer our questions before you go out of station again!
